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Dec 16, 2022

Bill Fairman (00:01):

Greetings, everyone. We are live. Thank you for joining us. Wendy will not be with us today. She is currently at, I don't know, 30,000 feet on, on an airplane. So we're gonna talk about the year end review, even though the year isn't over with yet, but I don't know what much more will transpire between now and the first. So we're gonna, I'm do a, I'm, we're in a review today and we'll get to that right after. It's funny, that graphic we're showing the, the passive income gang. Yeah. With all the money flying. I'm going, that looks kinda active to me. <Laugh>,


Jonathan Davis (00:59):

He makes so much money passively, he just actively throws it away. Is that what Yeah, I guess that's


Bill Fairman (01:03):

The, so by the way, welcome to the show. We are what is the name of the show? I keep forgetting? It's real estate. Real Estate Investor Show Hard Money for real estate investors. We are Carolina Capital Management private lenders in the Southeast for real estate professionals. If you have a project that you would like us to take a look at, please go to carolina hard Click on the apply now tab. If you're a passive investor looking for passive returns, we have a place for you as well. Click on the accredited investor tab. Don't forget to like, share, subscribe, hit the bell. And don't forget about Wednesdays with Wendy, since this is Thursday. She's not here. <Laugh>. So Wendy Dev devotes 30 minutes per person on Wednesdays to talk about anything real estate. Yep. She's usually booked up in advance quite a bit. So there's a link to get on her calendar.


Jonathan Davis (02:07):

Yeah. She's usually a month or two out. Yeah.


Bill Fairman (02:09):

Yeah. Take advantage of it.


Jonathan Davis (02:11):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely. Well, a month in review, or a month in review, A year in review, that's even worse. But


Bill Fairman (02:18):



Jonathan Davis (02:18):



Bill Fairman (02:29):

I always like freaking out our production group.


Jonathan Davis (02:31):

I love that. Yeah. I mean, we'll, we'll get to the, we'll get to the breaking news in a second. But yeah, I mean, just kind of a, an over overarching cap. Like we


Bill Fairman (02:39):

Had a lot


Jonathan Davis (02:39):

Going on this year has been Wow. It's just, you know,


Bill Fairman (02:44):



Jonathan Davis (02:45):

Not to, you know, the same, the same investor loan that would've captured over 4.1% in January is capturing an 8.7% rate in December. I mean, it's, that's a big swing.


Bill Fairman (02:58):

Yeah. And if you're, you know, if you bought a piece of property and before you get it finished and then the numbers don't work out for you mm-hmm. <Affirmative> you're gonna have to readjust. Yeah. Obviously.


Jonathan Davis (03:10):

Yeah. I mean, I think the, you know, if you, you know, $400,000 investment in house, you know, typically, you know, you need about $1,800 of rental income at a three and a half percent rate to cover it. And with the rates jumping where they are, and now you need $2,700 in rents to cover the, the payment Yeah. Rents while increasing didn't increase that much. Right.


Bill Fairman (03:34):

And they will eventually. But, but do, do you wanna lose money until then? No, you always have to have cash. It has to cash. Even if it's only $200 a month.


Jonathan Davis (03:48):

Even if it's only $50. I mean something, you know, 200 is better than 50, but Yeah. Don't have a negative cash flow. Yeah.


Bill Fairman (03:55):

But like I said, in the long run the rents will eventually outpace. Mm-Hmm. And then, you know, at some point rates should come down and then you can refinance and improve that.


Jonathan Davis (04:09):

I love the certainty of the wood. Should <laugh> makes me not think of that. Never know. What's that phrase? Don't should all over me.


Bill Fairman (04:16):

Don't shit all over me. It's nice. All right. But before we get to this year end review we have a little bit of breaking news. I a little, oh, the corner. You guys can't see it from here, but we got an emoji of Oh my gosh. What are you talking about,


Jonathan Davis (04:46):

<Laugh>? Well, so, you know, not necessarily breaking, but you know, it's news nonetheless. What is interesting is the days on market or the inventory market in, in a single family is 1.6 months for October for the prior month, which is almost,


Bill Fairman (05:07):

That's not even close to normal,


Jonathan Davis (05:08):

Not even, but for the last five years, that is the lowest days on market for the last five years.


Bill Fairman (05:18):

Is that nationally?


Jonathan Davis (05:19):

Yes. Nationally for the last five years. So that even, even with what we're going through, higher interest rates, low, you know, low supply, we still, you know, loans are, houses are still closing and they're closing fast.


Bill Fairman (05:34):

So as we always say here, a stable market is six months worth of inventory. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so now we're talking about still less than two months. Yeah.


Jonathan Davis (05:42):

Yeah. Absolutely. also, you know, you know, just wanna throw out North Carolina, Charlotte, and Raleigh they made it into the top 10 best markets for growth for multifamily and single family. So looks like Raleigh Raleigh came in at nine and Charlotte came in at seven. Wow.


Bill Fairman (06:06):

Yeah. Well that just goes to show you all the people that are migrating to these parts.


Jonathan Davis (06:11):

Yeah. And notables, you know, Tampa came in in the top 25. So did Atlanta. And those are also places that we lend in. Yeah. so, you know, we love that. And then, you know, the top five multifamily markets to invest in, just released by, who is it? Yardi, Yardi Matrix. Number one is Atlanta. You know, we get that. But number four, Charlotte. Wow. Yeah. So, you know, even, even with everything going on, you know, it still rounds out the top five for markets to invest in a multi-family.


Bill Fairman (06:44):

Yeah. I, I lived in Atlanta in the very late seventies and early eighties while I was going to school down there. And I was always told if you can't get a small business off the ground in Atlanta, you'll not be able to get a small business off the ground


Jonathan Davis (07:01):

Anywhere. That's true. There's a lot of small businesses in


Bill Fairman (07:03):

Atlanta. Cause it was just a market that even in those high I mean that at that time they were high interest rate. We were in the middle of recession as well.


Jonathan Davis (07:14):



Bill Fairman (07:15):

And people were still very optimistic about you know, business growth in the Atlanta market. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that has really kind of translated into most of the, the southeast, because Yeah. A lot of people are migrating here. You got anything else?


Jonathan Davis (07:30):

Just, you know, I thought it was interesting. Maybe you all will as well. I did not know exactly how many hours the average renter had to work to pay for their rent. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> it's 62 hours. Yeah. 62 and a half hours.


Bill Fairman (07:44):

For the month's rent.


Jonathan Davis (07:45):

For the month's rent, they have to work 62 and a half hours to, you know, to pay their month's rent, which is now, which that is up six hours more than it was Yeah. Before the pandemic. So, you know, you have to work six more hours to live in the same place. I, I like, you know, equating those things together, it's like what, you know, we, we can say it costs $200 more, but, you know, or it's, you know, you know, we like, you know, we like the expression of time returning time return on effort. You have to work six more hours to stay in the same place.


Bill Fairman (08:15):

Well, you think about that if you're trying to qualify for a mortgage, your housing expense can't be more than what, 28%?


Jonathan Davis (08:26):

Yeah. Yeah. 28. Yeah. I think that's right.


Bill Fairman (08:29):

Brian, if Brian's listening, he'll


Jonathan Davis (08:31):

Go correct it. Yeah.


Bill Fairman (08:32):

He'll chime in. But I, I think it's in the 28% range, so mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that's much higher. 62 hours is much higher than what it's gonna be to qualify for a mortgage. Yeah. So rents are going up higher than your affordability for Oh yeah. Buying a home.


Jonathan Davis (08:52):

Yeah. You know, and they'll say like, rents have, you know, have slowed down. They have the rate of appreciation or arising has, has slowed down, but they still rose seven over 7% year over year for October. Yeah. Which is, you know, yeah. You know, more than average, but, but slowing down.


Bill Fairman (09:12):

Okay. So let's talk about the, and I'm gonna talk about single family prices first or home appreciation for the year in review.


Jonathan Davis (09:23):

This is the year in review. <Laugh>,


Bill Fairman (09:34):

It looks like a heavy metal here in


Jonathan Davis (09:36):

Review. I love it. I only did that cuz I like to throw bill off.


Bill Fairman (09:39):

That's okay. It's easy to do. So peak home appreciation hit in June of 2022 at an annualized rate of 20%.


Jonathan Davis (09:56):

Did you round I think it was 19.8.


Bill Fairman (09:58):

Yeah, I rounded it. Yeah. 20%. That's incredibly high. And as we always talk about here, unsustainable


Jonathan Davis (10:07):

<Laugh>, 20% growth. Yeah. Was is unsustainable.


Bill Fairman (10:11):

So what what's funny, I, I hear a lot of the, the pundits talk about this and how all the markets are overvalued, which they are for the most part. And as the things shake out, they believe that appreciation will drop all the way down to between two and a half and three and a half percent.


Jonathan Davis (10:31):

You mean to normal,


Bill Fairman (10:32):

Which is been the normal rate of appreciations. It's the fifties.


Jonathan Davis (10:36):

It's terrible. It's going to, it's gonna just crash. The market's gonna crash, it's gonna get down back to normal appreciation.


Bill Fairman (10:43):

2022, I also saw record energy prices.


Jonathan Davis (10:48):

That is true. Yeah.


Bill Fairman (10:50):

Our fuel has gone through the roof, which means that's gonna add pain to everything that we do. Yep. Everything.


Jonathan Davis (10:59):



Bill Fairman (10:59):

Yep. That's one. I mean, we had inflation because of supply chain, which was, you know, kind of a short term thing.


Jonathan Davis (11:07):

Yeah. I I didn't, it was supply chain. It had nothing to do with four, you know, what was it trillions of dollars? Was it 4.2 trillion being printed? Well, that didn't help.


Bill Fairman (11:16):

Yeah. But I mean, we did have inflation because we, we had a lot of people demanding stuff. We couldn't get it. Yeah. So if you could get it, you were gonna pay more for it.


Jonathan Davis (11:25):

Sure. But you had 4 trillion more dollars.


Bill Fairman (11:27):

No, I, I get all that. I'm not saying that's not the only thing, but that would've been temporary. But the, the cost of energy going up keeps it going even longer. Yeah. And then the Fed, in my opinion, it's not the rates that were so low that caused a lot of this and then the free money that the government was giving out, but the balance sheet of the Fed mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. I just wanna, they weren't reigning that


Jonathan Davis (11:55):

In. Just wanna point out, bill said, you know, the free money that the government was handing out, as you all know now, there is no such thing as free money. You're feeling, everyone's been feeling for how long? Yeah.


Bill Fairman (12:07):

It's free to some people. <Laugh>


Jonathan Davis (12:10):

Not to us. Yeah.


Bill Fairman (12:12):

And here's another thing that's been kind of an issue. We have the lowest employment participation rate since the oh eight crash.


Jonathan Davis (12:22):



Bill Fairman (12:23):

And that's also causing inflation, but it's, it's more of a employment inflation because you're, you have a shortage of of workers. Yep. And so you have to pay more to get 'em there. And then a lot of them are, you know, playing that off and just going from one place to another.


Jonathan Davis (12:41):

<Laugh> mm-hmm.


Bill Fairman (12:42):



Jonathan Davis (12:42):

And, you know, you, you know, record energy prices you brought up. And it's not just here, it's in Europe and everywhere abroad. But I thought it was notable. I remember mentioning this way back after, you know, right after the pandemic. Do you, do you all remember what the first business or first thing that Warren Buffet bought coming outta the pandemic?


Bill Fairman (13:07):



Jonathan Davis (13:08):

An energy company. Oh, no. Smart guy.


Bill Fairman (13:11):

Yeah. That's why he was the, what do they call him? The something of Omaha, the,


Jonathan Davis (13:18):

Oh, I don't know.


Bill Fairman (13:19):

No. Anyway, something important of Omaha. The Oracle.

Jonathan Davis (13:25):



Bill Fairman (13:26):

Oracle. The Oracle of


Jonathan Davis (13:27):

Omaha. I had no sir Dam in my head. I couldn't, couldn't get


Bill Fairman (13:30):

It out. Yeah. No, he, he's a smart guy. <Affirmative>, let's go to how things have changed. So 2020 OB or 2021, we obviously had inventory issues with single family housing. Yeah. So in, in order to keep up with that change a lot of investors started moving into smaller and multifamily and self storage. Yep. Those are two property types that are still recession resistant. Sure. the multifamily, you still have to have a place to live mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And while the, you know, the zero, there's a few more zeros on 'em, there's still great investment opportunities. Yeah. so what do you think about that? From an investor's perspective? People get a little concerned about the extra zeros that makes them a little afraid. It makes, it's easier to do the single family homes because it makes you feel better. You can get rid of one. If you run into trouble, if you have an apartment complex or a self storage facility you're dealing in a lot higher dollar amounts and people get a little nervous about that.


Jonathan Davis (14:43):

Oh, that's true. You know, there's a whole lot of different ways to look at it. So we, we know that in like sales and cap rates, multifamily was the big winner in 2021. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it looked like in 2022 for the first half of the year, they were going to be as well. And then, you know, then the interest rates and inflation and everything happened. But with single family, you are tied solely to the conditions of the market to that ebb and flow, to demand supply interest rates. You are tied solely to those things. And there's not much you can do to increase your value beyond market. You know, unless there's just, you know, no supply. And, and then we've seen that what's, you know, 20% appreciation in multifamily. While there are more zeros, you have more control. And you can, you know, with the rising or rising rents, you know, rents are, are, are rising.



So you can increase your net operating income. And that is based off of the capitalization rate of whatever the market is in that area. We know how much demand is. But you know, you're kind of stuck with that. And so now what do you do? Well, you can create a shared laundry room where you create additional, you know, income or you can create other avenues of income for this property or, or take away expenses from the property and you can, and you can inflate or deflate that price or that value accordingly. So it just gives you a little more control. So we're still seeing multi-family selling. Not like it was, you know, six months ago and definitely not like it was a year ago. You know, October, November and December of last year. I mean, we saw record sales and multi-family. The interest rates are, you know, are hurting a bit of that cuz you know, you have to buy in at a much lower operating capitalization rate, which just means how much you're gonna make off of it.



 So that's really compressing the market for a lot of people. Those additional zeros. Most people kind of get around that additional risk factor by bringing other people in, whether it's equity investors or partners in the llc, what have you to kind of share that risk across the board. Which you don't really, you see it in single family, but the, the, you know, to buy a hundred thousand dollars house or a million dollar multi-family, I mean, you know, you can, you can make the risk more palatable on a hundred thousand. You can a million for one person. Yeah.


Bill Fairman (17:30):

There. And there's differences in commercial financing. It finances differently in a lot of cases. You can't get 30 year fixed rate. You have to go to more of a a on multifamily 20. I mean there are some available, it's not,


Jonathan Davis (17:47):

We do 30 year fixed on multifamily.


Bill Fairman (17:50):

The way to value of property is based on the income that it receives. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you can add value to the property, raise rents and then, or lower expenses or a combination of the two. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and you will add value to the property, which is not gonna happen on a single family home. No. It's just gonna go based on what home down the street sold for.


Jonathan Davis (18:15):

Exactly. Exactly.


Bill Fairman (18:16):

So there's a lot more you can do with those that you can with a single family home. That said, if you need to move it quick, single family homes are the most liquid


Jonathan Davis (18:27):

<Laugh>. That's true. There are more buyers in that. And it's, it's a faster move. It's a, yeah.


Bill Fairman (18:32):



Jonathan Davis (18:32):

Easier financing, lower due diligence period. You know, all those things. Yeah. Wendell asked, will appreciation go below inflation? Well, I like that you didn't put a time period on that, so I'm gonna say yes.


Bill Fairman (18:46):

Well, the numbers for appreciation will go be below the current inflation rate, but I don't know if they go below the inflation rate at the time they, they drop down to the lower single digits.


Jonathan Davis (19:04):

Say that again to me. I'm not sure. I


Bill Fairman (19:06):

Don't know that we'll have high, that high of inflation when I'm expecting appreciation at some point to be in the five to six range. Yeah. We may not have inflation at five or 6% when that occurs. Well, we could, but that's okay. It, it's


Jonathan Davis (19:24):

Are you saying it be above or


Bill Fairman (19:26):

Below? But what I'm saying is inflation may be in the fours when we have appreciation in the sixes, but it could be that it goes into the threes and we still have inflation in the sixes.


Jonathan Davis (19:38):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>,


Bill Fairman (19:39):

It's not gonna stay that way for long.


Jonathan Davis (19:41):



Bill Fairman (19:42):

It will eventually bottom out. And again, if, if the homes appreciation rate, if you're buying single family homes for rental, it doesn't matter because it's about the cash


Jonathan Davis (19:54):

Flow. It's about the cash flow and what you bought in at.


Bill Fairman (19:56):

Yeah. And you know, and Wendell, you already know this, the house does not care what it's worth. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it depends on the income that's coming in. It's all about the money coming


Jonathan Davis (20:05):

In. But yeah, I mean, in short, yes. Appreciation will go below inflation. I mean, you know, they ebb and flow as Wendell knows. That was a great question.


Bill Fairman (20:15):

Yeah, that was awesome


Jonathan Davis (20:16):

Question. But, you know, win win is always, it's, it's not, you know, it's not really if it's, you know, it's win and no one really knows that.


Bill Fairman (20:24):

I'm also seeing, and this is just from me noticing this is not scientific data <laugh>, I've noticed a few self storage facilities, the a class property types, I'm noticing a lot more available tags on the doors versus locks.


Jonathan Davis (20:44):

Mm. Okay.


Bill Fairman (20:45):

So vacancy rates are getting a little, little bit higher.


Jonathan Davis (20:48):

I always wondered where you win in the afternoons. I guess you're just, you know,


Bill Fairman (20:51):

I'm just perusing self storage facilities. I'm gaping through the fence.


Jonathan Davis (20:56):

Ooh. Available <laugh>.


Bill Fairman (20:58):

But I am seeing occupancy rates starting to drop a little bit in the cell storage. But that's,


Jonathan Davis (21:07):

And that's, and that's okay because they've been, you know, if doing, they're, they're class A and if they're doing what they're supposed to do, they're, they've been pushing those rents Yeah. Month after month pushing them up and now they have to bring 'em back down a little


Bill Fairman (21:19):

Bit. Right? Yeah. People will not change facilities if you move it up 10 or 20 bucks a year. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But when you move it up 10 or 20 bucks every quarter


Jonathan Davis (21:32):

Or every month, some of them have gone, I've seen some dollar, like five, $10 a


Bill Fairman (21:35):

Month. Yeah. They'll, people say my $500 worth of stuff needs to go somewhere else. Mm-Hmm.


Jonathan Davis (21:41):

<Affirmative>. Yep. Absolutely.


Bill Fairman (21:43):

But those are great markets to be in. I am, well we are going, it's all about me. We are <laugh> we're gonna discuss Carolina Capital now for the end of the year.


Jonathan Davis (21:57):

Everything that happened to Carolina Capital was all because of Bill


Bill Fairman (22:01):

<Laugh>. Yeah. we had record dollars funded for the years since we've been in business thanks to this man.


Jonathan Davis (22:09):

Right. All it was a team effort, but all of us, yeah. So we, you know, as we set right now we're at 71 and a half million dollars out the door this year, year to date. So


Bill Fairman (22:22):

What was our, what was our biggest year?


Jonathan Davis (22:24):

The biggest year before that Yeah. Was like 36 million. Yeah.


Bill Fairman (22:29):

Yeah. So that was a big jump in a year. Yeah. So 2022 was really good to us. We also had the highest fund returns since 2017. And, and Ysa since 2017. Or why is it different? Why the returns higher? Well, in 2017 we were charging a lot more for loans.


Jonathan Davis (22:51):

<Laugh>, you were charging a lot more and you had less assets under management. That's true. So the, the fewer assets you have under management, the easier it is to organically produce higher returns. Right. The more money and more assets you have under management, the more difficult it becomes to produce those higher returns.


Bill Fairman (23:14):

And and back then we didn't have a lot of competition. And during the end of 17 and the 18 and the 19 you had a lot more Wall Street firms coming into the hard money space. Yeah. And, you know, we obviously had to get competitive cuz they were charging a lot lower rates because money cost them nothing.


Jonathan Davis (23:34):

I remember seeing someone advertising hard money at five and a half or 5.75. It's like, wow,


Bill Fairman (23:42):

That right there is not very good management of your client's money.


Jonathan Davis (23:48):

Well, and the thing is,


Bill Fairman (23:49):

The risk, the risk is so much higher than a 5%


Jonathan Davis (23:53):

Interest. Well, and, and here's the thing. They were probably returning through investors a high single low double digit return, but they had that money levered four or five times. So when things, you know, when things change, like we just saw change their investors are last in line to get their money and all the creditors that they levered their money with are first. So


Bill Fairman (24:14):

Now that said, with the proper leverage, you can have, and I'll give you a quick example. You have a fund that is loaning money on an apartment complex, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And they can be giving the apartment complex market rates and still return their investors well above


Jonathan Davis (24:34):

Market. And if you wanna find out about that, schedule a call with Bill. Cause this is the year in review.


Bill Fairman (24:39):

That's right. I won't get into it. <Laugh>. All right. And then we lastly we have the highest amount of money under management now that we've had since we've been in business,


Jonathan Davis (24:49):



Bill Fairman (24:50):

Yes. And this is not a sales pitch, but we could always use more.


Jonathan Davis (24:54):

Yeah. Always more So, you know, give the disclaimer real quick before I start throwing out some numbers.


Bill Fairman (25:01):

Yes. your mileage may vary. This is consult your attorney, read the PPM before you invest and invest wisely.


Jonathan Davis (25:10):

Invest wisely. Yes. so last year our fund averaged 10 and a half percent return to the investors. This year through three quarters. It's done the same and it's done the same with more money under management or more assets under management. So we have as a team been able to absorb that money, additional capital, place it, and manage it, and still meet or exceed the returns we were doing with less money. And, you know, if you know anything about managing a fund, that is, that, that's the difficult part. That is the very hard part of this. And you know, Wendy, you, me and then our team here, like everyone has done such a great job helping us, you know, manage and place money. It's it's,


Bill Fairman (26:04):

And, and we and we do it without leverage.


Jonathan Davis (26:08):

Correct. So we do not lever our fund at all. If something happens and investors in our fund need their money, they are the first in line to get it. There's no one in front of them. Right.


Bill Fairman (26:20):

And that, that's key. There's two reasons you don't wanna lever your money. And one is that, that your investors are in second position essentially. Yeah. And number two, if you're investing with an ira, the IRS doesn't like your IRA being levered and they could charge you a EBIT tax on that as well.


Jonathan Davis (26:42):

But if you're making high enough returns, you don't really care. It's just the filing that really gets you Yeah. It's a pain. It's a pain, you know.


Bill Fairman (26:48):



Jonathan Davis (26:49):

But, but no, it's, it's been a great year. Yeah. We started out, like I said at the very beginning of this, you know, we could do loans at 4.1% on a 30 year fixed. And now, you know, we're, we're looking at, you know, mid to high eights. There's some people even doing nines and tens on, on investor loans bridge loans and, and like fix and flip and new construction, you're still seeing, there's a few guys out there doing it. Probably, what, eight to 10%? Probably not many. Most people are going to be in that 10 to 14% range right now. Just, just because, you know, like we have cost of funds and then every, every risk profile above zero gets assigned an interest rate above that. And, you know Sure. So as you move down the line, you know, you, you, you know, you get new construction right now, new construction is, you know, unpredictable at best, <laugh>, and definitely especially on the timeframe.


Bill Fairman (27:47):

All right. So as an investor, I'm not worried at all in this market. We needed things to slow down because they were unsustainable. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. There's still plenty of opportunities out there. And another thing this type of market does is it shakes out the trees. It takes the people that were doing it part-time, the folks that were just looking at hgtv. Yeah. it takes the real estate agents and brokers that were essentially part-time and it allows the real professionals to handle the customers because


Jonathan Davis (28:19):

Like Don Harris. Yeah.


Bill Fairman (28:22):

It, it's a shame that the people that are just doing it part-time, a lot of times they don't, they don't have the number of transactions that they have gone through to get the experience, not to make mistakes. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and what it does, it reflects badly on the industry. Same thing would happen to, you know, a new fix and flip person who gets into the industry and hasn't had the bumps and bruises, or worked with a mentor to understand some of the mistakes that can happen. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it can give that industry, you know, a bad name as well. Yeah, very true. So what's gonna happen now, because things are a little bit tighter, it's the professionals that are gonna be maintaining and they're still, like I said, there's always gonna be deals in any market. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>


Jonathan Davis (29:07):

And the professionals know that whether the interest rate is 8% or 15%, it doesn't matter. It's how much, you know, how much risk can I tolerate and how much money will I make? And that's all that matters.


Bill Fairman (29:19):

And you make your money on the buy.


Jonathan Davis (29:21):

Yep. Absolutely


Bill Fairman (29:22):

Not the


Jonathan Davis (29:23):

Sale. And if you can't make it on the buy, well, you try to make up for it on the rehab and then that doesn't really work. And


Bill Fairman (29:29):

<Laugh>. All right. So before we go Wendy is gonna be speaking at a few places. I don't wanna run through that real quick. And the first one is Quest Expo.



Oh, I'm sorry. Quest Con <laugh>. It is online version, and it starts on December 9th. There is a discount code. Carolina 15 gets you $15 off, unlike the Fairman 30 that got you. $30 off, but it's not as expensive. So take the break. What else we got coming up for Wendy. Okay. Invest her. Wendy is actually doing a, she's hosting a, a webinar on December 14th. We don't have a link for that yet, but we'll make sure we get it in the notes. Yeah. What else we have? Oh, and then the Raleigh tria, that's the greater triangle area of High Point. Winston-Salem, Greensboro Raleigh, or no, maybe that's Carrie Durham, chapel Hill, I don't know, but she'll be speaking at


Jonathan Davis (30:42):

Somewhere in North Carolina,


Bill Fairman (30:44):

January the 12th. We'll get you some information on that too. They have a great R group up there. They really do. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Anything else inside cell storage? Wendy is actually, yeah. Gonna be a featured speaker in Las Vegas. Do you see how she elbows her way into speaking positions? We've owned a self storage facility for like six months and she's already a featured speaker at Self Storage <laugh> do it nationally. So we'll make sure that if you can't attend, we'll do our best to get some video of it. Yeah. All right. Are we good? All right. Excellent. Folks, thank you so much for joining us. I hope your year was as good as ours and as blessed as ours has been,


Jonathan Davis (31:41):

Those are my favorite moments.


Bill Fairman (31:42):

He, he has got to get that thing


Jonathan Davis (31:44):

In there, didn't he? I think he's just messing with you right now. <Laugh>.


Bill Fairman (31:48):

So, thank you so much for joining us on The Real Estate Investor, show Hard Money for Real Estate and Investors. We are Carolina Capital Management. We are private lenders for real estate professionals. If you'd like us to take a look at one of your projects, go to carolina hard and click on the Apply Now tab. If you are a passive investor looking for passive returns


Jonathan Davis (32:07):

And, and you wanna, you know, join the other investors that we have, that outpaced inflation.


Bill Fairman (32:12):

Yep. Go to the accredited investor tab. Don't forget the like, share, subscribe, hit the bell, all that good stuff. Next week.